Thread: Calibers

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Finally some common sense in this thread!
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Id happily shoot a 308 so....... don't leave yours up by the target stands

Originally Posted by Tussock

There are three or four big magnum builders around. You might notice I rib all of them. I can't afford to be building mega magnums all the time at the moment and when I could it's not the road I chose to go down.

But I learn heaps. None of them are particularly forthcoming with information. Why would they be, it's a commercial business .

But give Tuiman a bit of a twist and look what comes pouring out!

Everyone gets way to precious and delicate about this stuff. There is no reason why this can't be good natured ribbing. If you went along to a shoot you would see me having them on in the same way, with a grin on my face.

It's not in my nature to take brass tubes and get all emotional about them. It's ridiculous. It's just a gun. Where is the fun in this hobby if you can't discuss, argue, joke and cajole over these things?

When we started all this we considered a rule where all those who could not get along had to meet up for a shoot or a hunt and actually see each other in person.

I'm keen. Time for a long range shoot. I will come with my 6.5 and put my powder where my mouth is. You will see I don't care enough to dig at people. I'm just curious.

Great post Tussock :thumbup:

Have to say this is a great idea, bout time we had another steel shoot... There are some egos that need deflation, most likely mine included...

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Originally Posted by Tussock

But give Tuiman a bit of a twist and look what comes pouring out!

I'm not trying to hide anything

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Originally Posted by Spanners

What pressure does it run at?

My big 7mm (Fatmax), which (I'm assuming, so could be very wrong) is almost identical To Abe's 7mm screamer is pushing a 180gr hybrid at 3,300fps. 100gr of US869, 215GM primers, Norma brass, very similar OAL. Measured at 65,000psi with this load, using a Remington 700 action.

My 338 Lunatic, pushes a 300gr Hybrid at just under 3,300fps. Approx 140gr gr US869, 215GM primers, Jamison Brass. 67,500psi, Barnard P-Chey.

They could both push their projectiles faster I'm sure, heaps of available powder space to do that, but until there is some concrete, well documented evidence, from a well respected gun expert etc I'm happy to stick with the pressure as loaded above.

I have a wife, 2 kids, a good job, nice house etc, and quite frankly, I'm not going to trade that for a 100-200fps gain on the cloak and dagger advice/ramblings of some idiot that won't cough up any real data.

That is all I am going to say on this subject. I'm tired of it and the complaining that enviably follows when the pressure question is asked after load data is posted that gives velocities clearly/substantially above what has been the reported norm for a particular chambering. Why post these numbers if you are not willing to provide some data?

Originally Posted by Tussock

I'm looking for a property for an LR shoot.

Maybe we should start another thread about this, I know of a suitable one at Hyde...

Originally Posted by Tussock

I want to go to Hyde. I want to go there now. I know what's at Hyde.

R93 pole dancing?

Originally Posted by Tussock

I have never seen a serious measured number given without a + or - percentage.

I'm in the business of ultra high pressured measurements, stress and strain. Those are earthquake pressures. Brass is also a very popular metal to play with because of the way it behaves at those pressures. In million dollar high pressure experimental set ups I have never seen pressure stated with the level of confidence people throw around pressure numbers in the shooting world.

It's make believe. Forget about it. It's like when you see "scientifically proven" in a shampoo add. Nonsense.

You can not trust a number that does not come with a "plus of minus X percent" and if you can't trust it, it's dangerous or irrelevant. That number has an unknown margin of error, and if you don't know your margin of error, you don't know anything.

See. Fun discussions. If "respected shooting personalities" cant handle being questioned, the only people that will respect them are the ones that never question them. They can say and do anything with impunity.

A bit of rigorous debate never hurt anyone.

I'm looking for a property for an LR shoot.

I said I had finished talking about pressure... I lied...

I agree that the pressures I stated will not be exact, maybe there is a +/- 5% error (I don't know?), so maybe my pressure is 62,000psi, or 68,000psi, or somewhere inbetween.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that I am happy to stick to the pressures I am running (which might be different by +/- 5%) and be potentially short changing myself out of some velocity. In the absence of some real data to show me that I could safely run more pressure for a long period of time, I'm not going to change.

If the velocities being thrown around are backed up with a statement of "using my pressure testing gear this load tested at xx,xxxpsi" and that happened to be 3,400fps at 65,000psi, then I will be genuinely impressed and will congratulate the person that designed the throat/case/chamber (or whatever the secret is?) and would be interested in parting with some of my hard earned cash to get onboard. Until then, I will just shake my head and carry on blissfully with what I have...

Originally Posted by sneeze

R93 pole dancing?

I don't want to go to Hyde anymore...

Was really a rhetorical question...

Originally Posted by The Claw

....................
I have a wife, 2 kids, a good job, nice house etc, and quite frankly, I'm not going to trade that for a 100-200fps gain on the cloak and dagger advice/ramblings of some idiot that won't cough up any real data...............

You can be given all the data in the world, but if it differs from is given to you by who you want to follow, then what actual point is there as it will just be slated 'wrong'

If I presented data hypothetically for say 300gr @ 3500 on a off the shelf action @ 65000psi there would be all sorts of BS and 'unsafe' called out because the data (some of it obtained from a known non-quantifiable device) differs
How can you ever get acceptance???

As I stated prior, there is lot going on and data that will never see the light of day for the simple fact that it is 'differs' and will be shot down... some of it is over 5 yrs old and shot damn near daily.

No comment to my post spanners?

Is this where I pack a tanty and get all this deleted?

Forums would be boring without it

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Originally Posted by Spanners

Was really a rhetorical question...



You can be given all the data in the world, but if it differs from is given to you by who you want to follow, then what actual point is there as it will just be slated 'wrong'

If I presented data hypothetically for say 300gr @ 3500 on a off the shelf action @ 65000psi there would be all sorts of BS and 'unsafe' called out because the data (some of it obtained from a known non-quantifiable device) differs
How can you ever get acceptance???

As I stated prior, there is lot going on and data that will never see the light of day for the simple fact that it is 'differs' and will be shot down... some of it is over 5 yrs old and shot damn near daily.

If there is lots of data, and its been shot daily for 5 years, does that not prove that the accepted norm is out of date and there is a new level of performance out there? Probably does, and if that sort of bulk of data was summarised and made available to perspective buyers, they could make up their own mind about whether they want to be part of the "revolution".

I am certainly not adverse to trying something new out, but I also like to research that thing as much as possible before buying. If the information is viable, and supported by hard data, then why not release that data. I don't by any means mean release the secret as to what made the revolution possible, that makes no sense from a business point of view, but then neither does saying nothing at all...

Originally Posted by The Claw

If there is lots of data, and its been shot daily for 5 years, does that not prove that the accepted norm is out of date and there is a new level of performance out there? Probably does, and if that sort of bulk of data was summarised and made available to perspective buyers, they could make up their own mind about whether they want to be part of the "revolution".

And when that info is presented terms like 'cannot', 'blowing cases', 'chronograph is inaccurate', 'you're talking Bullshit', 'without popping primers', 'molten brass' get thrown around, so they just go quiet and continue on with what they do.

Originally Posted by The Claw

I am certainly not adverse to trying something new out, but I also like to research that thing as much as possible before buying. If the information is viable, and supported by hard data, then why not release that data. I don't by any means mean release the secret as to what made the revolution possible, that makes no sense from a business point of view, but then neither does saying nothing at all...

Some people do it for the enjoyment of shooting - its not always about being topdog and business

Originally Posted by tui_man2

No comment to my post spanners?

Is this where I pack a tanty and get all this deleted?

Forums would be boring without it

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You havnt answered mine...

I didnt see anything needed to be commented on
Anyway, the point clearly went way over your head

Where the fuck is Homer when you need him

Doh,
James

Bwahahahaa

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